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Post by bluewings on Jan 20, 2021 4:09:10 GMT 2
Hi Guys,
I have no experience with electronics and just started learning about arduinos and would really love to make this amazing radio stack.
I was looking at websites like PCBWay and JLCPCB and they offer assembly which can offer great help for someone like me. They ask for a BOM (bill of quantity) and Pick and Place files.
Does anyone have these ? Can anyone offer their experience in ordering PCB with assembly ? PCBway seems to offer assembly for both sides of the PCB.
Thanks!
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Post by eloute on Jan 21, 2021 0:58:31 GMT 2
Hi,
I don't think you are going to have any luck there. For the automated building you need a certain file type and from what I understand, it isn't available for this project. It's a shame really, I too wish it weren't the case as that would seem most ideal especially since JLCPCB offers free assembly. I just finished assembling an entire board and it doesn't work, not a single light. Words can't describe the frustration. For me, that's close to $300 down the drain. Nearly $200 for one set of boards (not proud of that deal) and all the components that were soldered to the board (not proud of that either)
I have just received 5 of the boards from JLCPCB after some back and forth with the gerber files being rejected and now I am in the middle of soldering the resistors and capacitors on this new board. I wont be soldering the 7 segment displays this time around, and I certainly wont be soldering in the switches and encoders without testing the displays first.
My advice to you is this: Take your time, look at each component, when it comes to the dip sockets for the max chips; make sure you solder them in the right way (they will have a groove on one end that will match the silkscreened diagram of the board. All the max chips face one direction except one I believe. I didn't realize that the first time and probably blew all my chips (who knows, nothing worked so)
This time around, I used a lead based solder 60/40 lead/tin as opposed to general rosin core lead free solder I found locally. Will that make a difference? I don't know. My soldering skills started and ended with my RC aircraft hobby. I do find though, the lead solder and my soldering iron set on it's lowest setting looks absolutely fantastic compared to my first board. The solder looks like it was put on by someone other than me lol.
I wish you the best of luck in this venture. Don't be discouraged, there are a couple who have had amazing success getting their boards up and running and will chime in with questions you may have.
Cheers
Ed
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Post by above1 on Jan 22, 2021 16:19:27 GMT 2
ED, get a breadboard to test your max chips and display and use the jumper wires to, well, wire it up. I too thought I had bad chips and it turns out every single one of them is working perfectly after testing them individually.
I did find that some of the displays I thought I had order correctly ended up being the incorrect ones. One set the guy sent me Common Anode and the other ended up being the part number was incorrect, 3641 instead of 3461 or something to that effect. The result of that was incorrect pin order for the PCB.
As other have shown, it does work. Also follow the DATA IN (PIN 2 from 40pin ENCODERS) and DATA OUT pins on the PCB for the MAX CHIPS and solder & test as you go. COM1 being the first chip, Solder the dip sockets 10K resistor and the 2 caps. That is all that is needed for the displays. Test it and, if successful, move to the COM2. so on and so forth until u reach max of 8 chips on the run then move on to the next set tracing PIN3..
Larry
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Post by eloute on Jan 22, 2021 19:48:40 GMT 2
ED, get a breadboard to test your max chips and display and use the jumper wires to, well, wire it up. I too thought I had bad chips and it turns out every single one of them is working perfectly after testing them individually. I did find that some of the displays I thought I had order correctly ended up being the incorrect ones. One set the guy sent me Common Anode and the other ended up being the part number was incorrect, 3641 instead of 3461 or something to that effect. The result of that was incorrect pin order for the PCB. As other have shown, it does work. Also follow the DATA IN (PIN 2 from 40pin ENCODERS) and DATA OUT pins on the PCB for the MAX CHIPS and solder & test as you go. COM1 being the first chip, Solder the dip sockets 10K resistor and the 2 caps. That is all that is needed for the displays. Test it and, if successful, move to the COM2. so on and so forth until u reach max of 8 chips on the run then move on to the next set tracing PIN3.. Larry Hi Larry, Thank you! I really need to get a breadboard and learn how to use it. I have double checked the part numbers on my displays and they are all common cathode. I will follow your instructions on following the pins and see what I get. I have another board soldered up with resistors, capacitors and sockets for the max chips so ill go look at that one. Thanks for your help. Ed |
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Post by bluewings on Jan 30, 2021 7:21:34 GMT 2
Hi, I don't think you are going to have any luck there. For the automated building you need a certain file type and from what I understand, it isn't available for this project. It's a shame really, I too wish it weren't the case as that would seem most ideal especially since JLCPCB offers free assembly. I just finished assembling an entire board and it doesn't work, not a single light. Words can't describe the frustration. For me, that's close to $300 down the drain. Nearly $200 for one set of boards (not proud of that deal) and all the components that were soldered to the board (not proud of that either) I have just received 5 of the boards from JLCPCB after some back and forth with the gerber files being rejected and now I am in the middle of soldering the resistors and capacitors on this new board. I wont be soldering the 7 segment displays this time around, and I certainly wont be soldering in the switches and encoders without testing the displays first. My advice to you is this: Take your time, look at each component, when it comes to the dip sockets for the max chips; make sure you solder them in the right way (they will have a groove on one end that will match the silkscreened diagram of the board. All the max chips face one direction except one I believe. I didn't realize that the first time and probably blew all my chips (who knows, nothing worked so) This time around, I used a lead based solder 60/40 lead/tin as opposed to general rosin core lead free solder I found locally. Will that make a difference? I don't know. My soldering skills started and ended with my RC aircraft hobby. I do find though, the lead solder and my soldering iron set on it's lowest setting looks absolutely fantastic compared to my first board. The solder looks like it was put on by someone other than me lol. I wish you the best of luck in this venture. Don't be discouraged, there are a couple who have had amazing success getting their boards up and running and will chime in with questions you may have. Cheers Ed Hi Ed, Many thanks for your reply and for sharing your experience. I totally understand how frustrating it must have been to put all that hard work and money and not seeing any lights. I am certain that at the very best, I will end up where you are and since I have no soldering experience or electronics knowledge, I am not sure even where to start. I bought a soldering kit though! I was really surprised to learn that gerber files, which seems to be the industry standard for exchanging PCB layouts, do not include any information on what components are needed and where they are placed. I assumed that it would be easy to export the list of components from the files using the right software. I am wondering how did you determine the placement and value of electronic components like resistors, capacitors, diodes, etc.. ? I looked at the instructions and while there is a list of components, I couldn't figure out for example where the 330 Ohm resistors should be soldered. Did you determine that from the gerber files and what software do you use to open them ? I have noticed that there are computer-generated 3D images of the PCBs that show the electronic components, do you know if these where generated using the gerber files ? If so, why it is not possible to export a BOM from these files? I am trying to determine if there is any way I can get this done or focus on something else instead. wish you the best as well with your project. |
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Post by above1 on Jan 30, 2021 16:10:18 GMT 2
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Post by eloute on Jan 30, 2021 18:33:52 GMT 2
Hi Ed, Many thanks for your reply and for sharing your experience. I totally understand how frustrating it must have been to put all that hard work and money and not seeing any lights. I am certain that at the very best, I will end up where you are and since I have no soldering experience or electronics knowledge, I am not sure even where to start. I bought a soldering kit though! I was really surprised to learn that gerber files, which seems to be the industry standard for exchanging PCB layouts, do not include any information on what components are needed and where they are placed. I assumed that it would be easy to export the list of components from the files using the right software. I am wondering how did you determine the placement and value of electronic components like resistors, capacitors, diodes, etc.. ? I looked at the instructions and while there is a list of components, I couldn't figure out for example where the 330 Ohm resistors should be soldered. Did you determine that from the gerber files and what software do you use to open them ? I have noticed that there are computer-generated 3D images of the PCBs that show the electronic components, do you know if these where generated using the gerber files ? If so, why it is not possible to export a BOM from these files? I am trying to determine if there is any way I can get this done or focus on something else instead. wish you the best as well with your project. Hi there, As it turns out, the problem with my setup may have been caused by faulty Max7219 chips. Most people don't have issues with the cheap Chinese clones that cost less than a dollar each, but for some reason all but one of the 25 chips I purchased do not work. I have confirmed this by moving the one working chip to other sockets on my board. I ended up ordering actual MAX7219CNG+ chips at a cost of $130 Canadian for 20. Was this necessary? I would say no as I can easily just pick another vendor on Aliexpress or ebay and buy more cheap chips and go from there. Considering I paid quite a bit for the boards to begin with and also forked out the money for actual dual encoders, I felt that I might as well just go all in and get proper chips as well. If this radio works, which I suspect it will, the investment will be well worth it as full radio stacks are well over $1000 and you get the satisfaction of building it yourself. That said, once I get the new chips in, I will know for sure. Once I know for sure, I might just have a soldered board to sell with the displays, switches and most encoders already in place. Don't give up yet. I have learned that soldering isn't all that difficult especially with this project. There is just a lot of it. Ed |
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Post by bluewings on Jan 31, 2021 3:40:33 GMT 2
Thanks for the links. Have you attempted the manual assembly ? Regarding the link that shows where everything goes, are you referring to photos ? or is it the wrong link (same link you included for the parts) The quantities and values of the resistors for example do not match the photos or the table below them. This is why I'm wondering how did you assemble your board. Below is a sample BOM sheet from PCBway and they require the exact placement of the parts so that the pick and place machine knows where each resistor, encoder, etc... should go. Does anyone know how to determine that ? If there is a gerber viewer that can identify the name/number of the holes on the PCB, I can determine what component should go there from the photos and fill the Designator column for each component in the BOM sheet. I have tried DesignSpark PCB, GerberGrab, GerberMagic, ViewMate, CircuitMaker, ZofzPCB among others and I couldn't figure out the name of the holes. I wonder what is the right software for this and what workflow people used in the assembly!  Sample_BOM_PCBWay.xlsx (26.93 KB) |
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Post by eloute on Jan 31, 2021 17:08:48 GMT 2
Hi,
The only way is to manually assemble the board. It really isn't all that difficult. I start with the resistors. I do all the 100 ohm then I move on to the 220 ohm then to the 10k resistors. After the resistors, I move on to the capacitors. It's a really cool project, even for a new person getting into soldering. Watch some YouTube videos on how to solder electronics and such.
The nice thing about this project is that the resistors and capacitors are a decent size so its easy to solder onto the board. Just take your time that's all.
All the spots are numbered and marked on the board. Resistors can go in either way, one type of capacitor that you will use has a negative and positive terminal and its clearly marked on the board with a "+" next to the hole where the positive terminal goes into. The slots that are made for the Max7219 chips are also marked for orientation of the chips. Just follow that and you'll be golden.
Ed
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